Section for anything DAoC related.

OP stuff!

Postby Ceraphin » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:08 am

Rather than complain/listen to complaints in tells about certain classes and unwritten rules, I am hoping that the forum might get used. I'm posting this specifically for things that might be unbalanced, from my opinion and from what people comment about most regularly.


Healers: Certain people (Snoop) think healers are op, I think they are fine but would be fine with them losing cl disease.


Theurgists: Lots of people hate them, but again I think theurgs are fine and don't cross the line into op till the group sizes are 7 or 8.


Shamans: I don't think they are op, though I know at least a few people disagree. Maybe I'm biased because I enjoy playing shaman, but even when playing against one without one on my team I don't think they're unbalanced.


Bonedancers: I utterly hate them and would happily delete the class if I could. More specifically I hate the pets. Unfortunately for me, Pyth thinks they are perfectly fine, and I can't think of any changes that wouldn't make them useless, so I forsee no changes.


Maulers: I think they do too much damage for the toys that they get, and have complained about them for over a year but to no avail. I think they should have a nerf to phoenix strike, or lose some of their snares/pulsing toys/unbreakable root, or lose stoicism. Just one of those three options, not all of them.


Thanes: I don't have a problem with them in 5s or higher, but I think they're broken in 4s because of the 1 caster rule we have in place. Pyth disagrees with me greatly and insists thanes are useless and do no damage and the only reason you'd ever lose to a group with a thane is because your group is terrible.


The one caster minimum rule: It's there for a reason, that reason being the drafts used to end up as never ending tank v tank fights. I spend more time on a caster being frustrated than having fun, and I don't think I am the only one. I would like to get rid of the one caster rule for at least one draft to see if it would be as bad now as it was last year.


Thoughts/comments encouraged!
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Re: OP stuff!

Postby Snoop » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Healers: Certain people (Snoop) think healers are op, I think they are fine but would be fine with them losing cl disease.


Thanks for the mention! Confuse should not kill pets instantly (annoying to play theurg against 2-3 confuse classes).

Theurgists: Lots of people hate them, but again I think theurgs are fine and don't cross the line into op till the group sizes are 7 or 8.


I agree with you, sista!

Shamans: I don't think they are op, though I know at least a few people disagree. Maybe I'm biased because I enjoy playing shaman, but even when playing against one without one on my team I don't think they're unbalanced.


Generally OK, but cacoon could have a longer reuse timer.

Bonedancers: I utterly hate them and would happily delete the class if I could. More specifically I hate the pets. Unfortunately for me, Pyth thinks they are perfectly fine, and I can't think of any changes that wouldn't make them useless, so I forsee no changes.


Completely agree. Nerf them hard, or delete them entirely.

Maulers: I think they do too much damage for the toys that they get, and have complained about them for over a year but to no avail. I think they should have a nerf to phoenix strike, or lose some of their snares/pulsing toys/unbreakable root, or lose stoicism. Just one of those three options, not all of them.


Damage needs to be reduced significantly.

Thanes: I don't have a problem with them in 5s or higher, but I think they're broken in 4s because of the 1 caster rule we have in place. Pyth disagrees with me greatly and insists thanes are useless and do no damage and the only reason you'd ever lose to a group with a thane is because your group is terrible.


Damage needs to be nerfed, along with a ban in 4v4.


The one caster minimum rule: It's there for a reason, that reason being the drafts used to end up as never ending tank v tank fights. I spend more time on a caster being frustrated than having fun, and I don't think I am the only one. I would like to get rid of the one caster rule for at least one draft to see if it would be as bad now as it was last year.


People should be able to play what they want, so I strongly agree with removing the 1 caster rule.
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Re: OP stuff!

Postby Lordofthekappa » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:13 pm

I think the one caster rule has just homogenized setups even further. That one caster is almost always a Sorcerer. Full tank groups aren't that fun because fights take forever but almost every group is Sorc and Healer.
A good compromise, in my opinion, would be removing the pvp ruleset and banning Theurgist.

Bonedancers are a disgusting class because like Minstrel if you can't kill their pet(s) you are fucked.

I think Maulers are actually not that bad other than the bullshit unbreakable root which almost always forces a purge. I believe Champions are more obnoxious with their -160 str or dex debuffs.
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Re: OP stuff!

Postby Tormidge » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:33 pm

I think thanes hit hard but it's possible to outlive they're 10 minute combo they have. Maybe we suggest putting more classes into the Meta since majority it is 4v4 5v5 Etc such as Necros,Bainshee,Paladin make some classes actually useful and reliable in these small mans because even thoug if these classes you named off gets nerfed they will still probably be played and viable.
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Re: OP stuff!

Postby pythion » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:24 am

Ceraphin wrote: I'm posting this specifically for things that might be unbalanced, from my opinion and from what people comment about most regularly.

I'm all for a conversation about what can be done to make more enjoyable drafts. It's ideal that it doesn't come at the cost of restricting classes or making them custom. Suggestions and feedback should be more oriented in what slowed things down or left people confused. Explaining the logic behind changes and rules can be very troublesome.

Ceraphin wrote:The one caster minimum rule: It's there for a reason, that reason being the drafts used to end up as never ending tank v tank fights.
Snoop wrote:People should be able to play what they want, so I strongly agree with removing the 1 caster rule.

In a full tank scenario, I think that prevents many people having played "what they want".

Tormidge wrote: Maybe we suggest putting more classes into the Meta since majority it is 4v4 5v5 Etc such as Necros,Bainshee,Paladin make some classes actually useful and reliable in these small mans

While it's true that many classes do not get played, there is a real issue with people having to learn what has been changed. The changes to Assassins, Wizards, Warlocks, and Shamans have been met with a lot of upset people at times. You could propose some changes for the classes that lack utility, but I don't think there will ever be an idea without a person strongly disagreeing.

In my own experience I've found that complaints are primarily rooted in the fairness of teams and the limited amount of setups with the group-size.

Healers are not liked as a sort of backbone to each group 4-5 in size as Bards are more of a small-man type class with a "fast and loose" play-style. In my opinion, support is the least desirable class for many and should be a good class if you're willing to play it.

Classes that get asked to be restricted are Theurgist, Minstrel, Bonedancer, Shaman, Warlock, and Thane.
Damage arguments are usually about the actual game itself with Mauler, Thane, Warlock, and the defense of Heavy's being brought into question.

In respect to the process of drafting, a lot has been done with the speed of it and understanding the Bo5 format. Unwritten rules such as, not switching on a win or having a mandatory caster has been very beneficial to having multiple drafts in a night.
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Re: OP stuff!

Postby Ceraphin » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:30 pm

I haven't got to play since adding an AoM charge to casters, but if it works as I would expect it to work it should relieve the complaints I have about maulers and thanes.

Torms point about bringing more classes into the meta is valid, but I don't know how you'd do it outside of making it RvR over PvP. While I'm not totally against the RvR ruleset, I don't think it will fix things after the novelty wears off ... I'd expect it to end up as mid v mid.

I do like to see the lesser played classes though ... I play rm most often as a caster, but I always feel bad when I do because I know there are other casters with more utility and dps that would be a better choice.
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